• Garrett O’Hara

    Garrett O’Hara is the Chief Field Technologist, APAC at Mimecast having joined in 2015 with the opening of the Sydney office, leading the growth and development of the local team. With over 20 years of experience across development, UI/UX, technology communication, training development and mentoring, Garrett now works to help organisations understand and manage their cyber resilience strategies and is a regular industry commentator on the cyber security landscape, data assurance approaches and business continuity.


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Should you click on all links in emails? Our hosts Garrett O'Hara and Dan McDermott talk to Human Error about the role he plays in cyber security. #cybersecurity #cyberresilience #getcyberresilient #humanerror

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Watch Human Error in action: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkxsTFLMcMvDdpeDtgFuOfjqJ5iNX_ES2


The Get Cyber Resilient Show Episode #6 Transcript

Human Error: [00:00:00] there's only one way to know if a link is safe, and that's to click it.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:00:09] Welcome to this episode of the Get Cyber Resilient podcast. I'm Garrett O'Hara, and that is definitely not my advice. Don't just click on all the links. That piece of advice comes from the Human Error character in Mimecast's Awareness Training videos. His name on stage in New York when he's doing stand-up comedy is Drew Freed. Actually, his name is Drew when he's doing anything other than acting. And Drew, a.k.a. Human Error, was doing a tour of Australia and New Zealand to record new local content for us, and also to just generally work the crowds.

Luckily, Drew and I happened to both be at an event in Auckland and, at the end of a really long day, we retired to a hotel room, we opened a beer, and we talked about Human Error's influence in cybersecurity.

In the background, you'll hear John [inaudible 00:00:53] and also the show's host, Dan McDermott, and... But, really what follows is a less-than-serious conversation with some serious ideas where we cover everything from how important it is to plug in random USB drives to your work computer; making sure you click on all the links all the time; the difference between burgers here in Australia and New Zealand and the US; and, also, how it feels to jump off a building and fall 192 meters. So, it's a lighthearted conversation at a time when we all know how important the impacts of security awareness training can actually be. So, we really hope that you enjoy it.

I'm sitting here with Human Error.

Human Error: [00:01:28]: That's right.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:01:29] The infamous and famous Human Error.

Human Error: [00:01:32]: That's right. In the flesh.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:01:33] Who are you?

Human Error: [00:01:34]: I'm Human Error, man, you said it yourself, the guy responsible for 95% of all security breaches. Pretty big deal.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:01:41] You are a big deal.

Human Error: [00:01:41]: Yeah. How you doin'? You want an autograph or something?

Garrett O'Hara: [00:01:43] I would love an autograph.

Human Error: [00:01:44]: Yeah, all right, cool. I'll sign something for ya.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:01:46] Is it gonna get weird very quickly [laughs]?

Human Error: [00:01:47]: Yeah. Oh, yeah. It always gets weird with me.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:01:50] Continue.

Human Error: [00:01:51]: How's everybody doing?

John Yagota: [00:01:52] John/Big Mac: We're doing well.

Human Error: [00:01:54]: We're taking callers.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:01:56] Probably.

Human Error: [00:01:56]: Are we?

Garrett O'Hara: [00:01:57] I wish we could, yeah.

Human Error: [00:01:58]: Ah, yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:01:58] The world of podcasts doesn't allow for that, but, um... So, you've been here for wha- Uh, two weeks? [crosstalk 00:02:06], I'm terrible at time.

Human Error: [00:02:06]: Two weeks, I've been here. But, you know, I'm always here. Really, I'm everywhere. Human Error's everywhere. You know what I mean? I'm kinda transient-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:02:14] Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Human Error: [00:02:15]: ... so I can manifest anyplace, any time. Uh, all-powerful. You know the drill.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:02:22] I do know the drill. We- we fight the good fight against you every day, um, but, uh...

Human Error: [00:02:26]: Yeah, it's cute.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:02:27] [laughs], it is kind of cute.

Human Error: [00:02:27]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:02:29] So, Australia and New Zealand have this reputation for being pretty chilled out.

Human Error: [00:02:34]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:02:34] And I think it's a good thing, right? I mean, that's a... It's a nice kind of attribute for this part of the world. It's part of why I live here. How does that go for you?

Human Error: [00:02:41]: Ah, it's great.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:02:43] Is it?

Human Error: [00:02:43]: I love it. It makes my job easy. You know, everyone's just so chill, so laid-back, easygoing. It makes my job easy, you know, when everyone is so trust-worthy.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:02:52] Mmm.

Human Error: [00:02:53]: And that's- that's the way I like it.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:02:55] How does that show up?

Human Error: [00:02:56]: Uh, you know, uh, we're on the street. We're, uh, we're talking to people. And, you know, for example, I ask someone what their password is, there's no delay. A lot of 'em are just spitting it right out. "My password's this." Or, "How do you remember your password?" "Well, it's easy; I use my name." Yeah. That- they use an accent.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:03:18] Do the accent.

Human Error: [00:03:19]: "Oh, it's easy; I use my name. I use my name. My birthday." You know?

Garrett O'Hara: [00:03:24] So, that's a Cockney accent, is it? Or-

Human Error: [00:03:26]: Uh, I don't know [laughs].

Garrett O'Hara: [00:03:27] [laughs].

Human Error: [00:03:28]: It's my best, uh, uh...

Garrett O'Hara: [00:03:31] What about New Zealand? Can you do the infamous fish 'n' chips? That's definitely a big thing over here.

Human Error: [00:03:36]: Give me some words. I'll see if I can, uh, give 'em back to you in the same way.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:03:40] So, the big one in Australia, and, when we talk about our, uh, New Zealand cousins, is... How they say fish 'n' chips is fosh 'n' chups.

Human Error: [00:03:48]: Fosh 'n' chips.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:03:49] It's perfect-

Human Error: [00:03:50]: Yeah, right. I nailed it.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:03:52] ... if you're Cockney. From, uh, London [laughs].

Human Error: [00:03:53]: [laughs], sorry.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:03:54] Ah, good times. But it's been a good trip, it sounds like. You've had an awesome time over here?

Human Error: [00:03:58]: Oh, yeah, it's been a blast. I mean, it's just been a whirlwind; it's been really cool. Um, a lot of people recognize me from the content. Uh, you know, I've actually lent my services to a company called Mimecast. Uh...

Garrett O'Hara: [00:04:12] I know those guys.

Human Error: [00:04:13]: Yeah. They're my enemy, but, you know, uh, they don't put up much of a fight, so I thought it would be kind of, you know, fun to let 'em, uh, let 'em use me. Like, use my image in their- in their AT content, Awareness Training. So, uh, and I guess it's working, which is scary, actually, now that I say it out loud. I don't like that.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:04:36] It's... Yeah, it's, uh, you're both a force- a force for good, and, uh, error at the same time. It's kind of-

Human Error: [00:04:42]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:04:42] ... a bit of a weird one. So, uh, I've heard the stories, um, that you've arrived into some of our customers to record, like, custom content for them.

Human Error: [00:04:51]: Yes.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:04:51] And, uh, like basically a celebrity arrival.

Human Error: [00:04:55]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:04:55] Um, for hors d'oeuvre, um, greenrooms. It's a- it's the rock star lifestyle.

Human Error: [00:05:00]: Honestly, not that I needed it, but it's been a huge ego boost. You know? Uh, one place we went to... Uh, what was the name of...?

John Yagota: [00:05:13] John/Big Mac: [inaudible 00:05:12].

Human Error: [00:05:13]: Nice. Uh, one place we went to... I mean, they had, uh, coordinated this big reception with hors d'oeuvres, uh, some of my favorite foods and sauces, and, then, when I walked into the room, there was a standing ovation; it was really cool. Um, and then, yeah, they proceeded to, uh, make their own, uh, skit, their own video.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:05:34] Is that right?

Human Error: [00:05:34]: They'd been watching the content for a while-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:05:35] Yep.

Human Error: [00:05:36]: ... and they had a whole script written. And, uh, it was really fun, uh, to kind of let them play with that... Uh, be filmmakers for a day.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:05:45] Good times.

Human Error: [00:05:45]: And uh-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:05:46] I heard a rumor that somebody recognized you in Melbourne's CBD?

Human Error: [00:05:50]: Yes.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:05:51] And literally, like, across the sh- [laughs] street, shouted, "Human Error!"

Human Error: [00:05:55]: Yeah, a couple of times. Yeah, we- we were out in the street doing some- some interviews, you know, finding out what people's passwords were and stuff like that, and, uh, for... Yeah, from across the street, I just heard, "Human Error!," you know? And, uh, yeah, uh, feeling like a celeb down here.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:06:13] That's very cool.

Human Error: [00:06:14]: Yeah. Think it's well-received down here, and it's been really cool.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:06:17] Uh, so, do you generally walk around in the outfit? So, the- the bathrobe, the-

Human Error: [00:06:20]: I wear the bathrobe everywhere I go.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:06:22] Okay, like a- a Big Lebowski kind of character, little bit?

Human Error: [00:06:24]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:06:24] Or- or Arthur Dent from, uh, Hitchhiker's Guide, if you read the...

Human Error: [00:06:27]: Yep. Yes.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:06:28] Yeah?

Human Error: [00:06:28]: Exactly. I have a- I have a lair back in the States. An underground lair where I have a carousel of, uh, robes and T-shirts, and, uh, that's all I wear. So, yeah, it's in my contract. I have to [crosstalk 00:06:42].

Garrett O'Hara: [00:06:42] So, depending on the event, it's sort of like, you know, sorta mall bathrobe, whereas, you know, right up to the Louis Vuitton hardcore gold, uh, thread amazing bathrobes? Is- is there a range?

Human Error: [00:06:52]: Yeah, there's- there's a, yeah, there's a spectrum of robes, depending on the event. They get, uh, they get more worn and torn the classier the event is.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:07:02] Yes. And many p- pairs of slippers or just the one set? Or how does that work?

Human Error: [00:07:06]: Oh, yeah. Uh, think I have six pairs of slippers, you know, for different things.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:07:12] Yep.

Human Error: [00:07:12]: Uh.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:07:13] D- do any of those slippers, uh, like, have studs that you might play, uh, like, sports with? Because I believe you met the, uh, the Melbourne Rebels.

Human Error: [00:07:21]: That's true.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:07:22] And there was a little bit of, uh, hardcore- hardcore tackling happened?

Human Error: [00:07:23]: Yes. So, yeah... Yeah, that's right. Um, uh, I have a pair of slippers that just have, like, kind of a deeper grade-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:07:30] Mmm.

Human Error: [00:07:31]: ... on the bottom, uh, for turf, or for natural grass. And, uh, when I- when we went and [laughs] filmed with the, uh, Melbourne Rebels, uh, they really- they really worked well.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:07:43] Mmm.

Human Error: [00:07:43]: I had- actually had to hold back a little bit, slow down, um, in order to let them hit me, for the video-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:07:50] Yep.

Human Error: [00:07:50]: ... that we were making.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:07:51] And, uh, painful?

Human Error: [00:07:52]: Uh.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:07:53] For them, or you? Maybe for them more than you?

Human Error: [00:07:56]: Uh, honestly, someone should call... There's a rugby player on the Melbourne Rebels who tackled me.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:08:02] Mmm.

Human Error: [00:08:02]: And I- I could tell he was shocked at how hard I was when he hit me. And, uh, has anybody checked with that guy? Has anybody called him, made sure he's okay, 'cause, ugh...

Garrett O'Hara: [00:08:19] Hopefully his insurance comes in.

Human Error: [00:08:20]: His shoulder must be [inaudible 00:08:22]... Yeah, I hope so.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:08:23] I did see this-

Human Error: [00:08:24]: His collarbone's shattered. Must be.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:08:25] ... it was this amazing photo of you kinda, I think, midair?

Human Error: [00:08:29]: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Garrett O'Hara: [00:08:29] And, uh, like your- your amazing flowing locks, you know-

Human Error: [00:08:32]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:08:32] ... are being sorta pushed through the wind. It was- it was quite a thing.

Human Error: [00:08:35]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:08:35] It was, maybe, Sports Photo of the Year for the Guardian?

Human Error: [00:08:38]: [laughs], yeah, sure [crosstalk 00:08:40]. Yeah, I kind of jumped with him, you know?

Garrett O'Hara: [00:08:42] Right.

Human Error: [00:08:42]: To- to, uh [crosstalk 00:08:45], make him feel better about himself.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:08:46] You know, that's very considerate.

Human Error: [00:08:47]: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:08:49] So, and you jumped off, uh, the Sky Tower. We're... So, we're recording this in Auckland today.

Human Error: [00:08:55]: Yes.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:08:55] Sun's about to go down, but you've had a big day, and I believe you started with a... What is it, 180 meter jump off the Sky Tower?

Human Error: [00:09:02]: I believe it's 192 meters.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:09:04] Sorry, 192 [crosstalk 00:09:06].

Human Error: [00:09:05]: That's correct. Yes. 192 meters-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:09:07] It's that last twelve meters. That's where the- the real hardcore [crosstalk 00:09:10]-

Human Error: [00:09:09]: That's where it gets really sketchy. Yeah, that last twelve meters. Uh, yep. Uh, tallest, uh, tallest freestanding structure in the southern hemisphere, I do believe. Um, and I jumped right off of it, so... Which I could have done without any harness or [crosstalk 00:09:29] thing. But they, you know, they have policies, so I let 'em rope me up, but I probably could've landed it without any- any of that.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:09:36] Do you ever look at the bathrobe almost like, uh, one of those wingsuits? Because that would be an amazing, uh-

Human Error: [00:09:39]: I haven't tried it yet, but I'm sure it would operate as a wingsuit.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:09:43] Wow.

Human Error: [00:09:43]: If need be, in a pinch.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:09:45] I won- wonder, after the Human Error stuff, if there's a place in some of those Tom Cruise movies, where, you know, he jumps off the wing of a plane and still manages to land.

Human Error: [00:09:52]: Oh, yeah. Oh, Tom calls me all the time.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:09:54] Does he? Yep. Good times.

Human Error: [00:09:55]: Yeah. Asking, you know... I got my answering machine back at the lair. Uh, I think there's about eighteen unanswered messages from Tom Cruise. "Human Error, I've seen your stunts."

Garrett O'Hara: [00:10:05] Persistence.

Human Error: [00:10:05]: 'Cause I do all my own stunts.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:10:07] Really?

Human Error: [00:10:07]: Don't know if you knew that.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:10:08] I didn't.

Human Error: [00:10:09]: Obviously. Um, obviously, I do all my own stunts, so, yeah, he's always reaching out, trying to- trying to do something with me.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:10:17] Good stuff.

Human Error: [00:10:17]: We have a lot in common.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:10:19] [laughs]... I noted- I noted that you do.

Human Error: [00:10:22]: Um, both really good-looking.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:10:25] Yeah.

Human Error: [00:10:25]: Yeah. The only difference is that I'm- I'm very tall.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:10:30] Right. So, no, uh, none of those boxes you have to stand on for, uh, when you're filming.

Human Error: [00:10:35]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:10:36] Or do you-

Human Error: [00:10:36]: Nah, I don't need those [crosstalk 00:10:41]. I can levitate if I want to. I mean, I'm a supernatural being.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:10:42] Yeah.

Human Error: [00:10:42]: Basically a superhero, so...

Garrett O'Hara: [00:10:45] Good times. Good times. So, how did you get into the Human Error gig? I was talking to- to your colleague earlier on. It seems like you've been there from the very start of the Mimecast days to what was Ataata- Ataata back in the day?

Human Error: [00:10:56]: Well, yeah, I mean, Human Error's been here since the beginning now.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:11:00] Mmm.

Human Error: [00:11:00]: Since the dawn of civilization.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:11:01] You're just tapping into, you know, the- the sort of th- the spirit of the Human Error? Almost like Monkey. Did you guys get that, uh... It was a, I think, uh, maybe a Chinese TV show?

Human Error: [00:11:12]: Oh.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:11:12] Um, Monkey Magic?

Human Error: [00:11:13]: Monkey Magic? Uh, I'm- I don't know it, but it sounds like my cup of tea.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:11:20] Yeah.

Human Error: [00:11:20]: So to speak.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:11:21] Like, it existed from the dawn of time and then there's the human version of- of this [crosstalk 00:11:27] black magic.

Human Error: [00:11:27]: Yeah. I took over this body. Uh, this guy, Drew Freed, um, when... Yeah, just for... Just to be in the videos.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:11:34] So it's a temporary thing. Is that right? What about Drew, uh, before Mimecast, or before Ataata?

Human Error: [00:11:40]: Uh, Drew before Mimecast and Ataata, uh, was a sketch comedian-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:11:45] Mmm.

Human Error: [00:11:46]: ... and improviser in New York City. Uh, did a lot of stuff at the Upright Citizens Brigade, uh, which is a comedy school that was started by Amy Poehler and-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:11:56] Okay.

Human Error: [00:11:56]: ... some other bozos. And, uh, yeah, so, was on a team there, performing sketch comedy once a month. Um, you know, and auditioning, doing a little commercial here and there. And, uh, a little bartending, as they do. Uh, so, yeah... This has, uh... In real life, this has replaced the bartending element of my life, which is... I'll take it. I'll take the trade-off.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:12:25] Yep.

Human Error: [00:12:25]: Wearing the robe, and traveling the world.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:12:29] And probably around the [inaudible 00:12:29], if you play your cards right, in my experience of corporate life.

Human Error: [00:12:31]: Yes. Oh, yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:12:33] You know, you've been over to- you've been to Melbourne, Sydney, Auckland, and I'm guessing the riders are pretty impressive for a guy like you, so...

Human Error: [00:12:40]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:12:41] Like, talking Cristal. Like, what's the- what's the rider look like when Drew goes back to his room?

Human Error: [00:12:45]: Wh- what's that word, 'rider'?

Garrett O'Hara: [00:12:46] Rider. You know, when, uh, performers get the- the list of things that they require in their hotel room, you know.

Human Error: [00:12:51]: Oh, right. Right.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:12:52] Only red M&Ms, or, uh...

Human Error: [00:12:53]: Yeah, I need a, uh, Big Mac on my pillow every hotel I check in to.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:12:59] Is that the burger, or is that a person you travel with?

Human Error: [00:13:01]: Uh, it's both, actually.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:13:02] Oh, nice [laughs].

Human Error: [00:13:02]: Uh, yeah [laughs]. I- my assistant's name... He's right here. This is Big Mac. Uh, and I also require the sandwich as well.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:13:11] [laughs].

Human Error: [00:13:11]: You know what, actually? In the, uh... In the, um, uh, what's it? The Sydney airport-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:13:18] Yep.

Human Error: [00:13:18]: ... I went to McDonald's. This is for real; this is real life. I went to McDonald's, and they had a... What was it called?

John Yagota: [00:13:26] John/Big Mac: Double Big Mac.

: Double Big Mac. It was two patties-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:13:29] Mmm.

Human Error: [00:13:30]: ... bun in the middle, and two more patties. I mean, that's one of the coolest things I've ever seen.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:13:36] It is. And- and then the weird thing is, when I go to the- the US, like, you guys do burgers in a way that, uh, I don't think anyone else in the world does. Including- including Big, uh, Big Macs in McDonald's.

Human Error: [00:13:45]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:13:45] I feel like I remember, years ago, in maybe Boston, coming from Ireland, and I actually worked in McDonald's.

Human Error: [00:13:51]: Oh, rea- oh, really?

Garrett O'Hara: [00:13:52] And I was stunned. There was these, like, versions of Big Macs. I was like, "Oh my God."

Human Error: [00:14:01]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:14:01] Some, you know, like triple, double patties. Amazing.

Human Error: [00:14:01]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:14:01] What a life.

Human Error: [00:14:01]: Oh, man.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:14:02] What a life. What an age we live in, huh?

Human Error: [00:14:03]: I know. Just... Triple Big Mac. The triple Big Mac. Living the dream, you know.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:14:08] [laughs], most definitely. So, how have you found the, uh, transition from bartending into, like, what you do now? Is like... It's- it's like acting all the time, [inaudible 00:14:20]...

Human Error: [00:14:18]: Yeah, you know. It's stuff that I've- I was always kind of doing. It's just, um, you know, playing one character, uh, whereas before I would, you know, play a lot of different characters.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:14:30] Mmm.

Human Error: [00:14:30]: Uh, and now it's just a lot more of the fun stuff, and less of the- the grind that was, uh, making money to pay rent kind of thing.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:14:42] Less of the grind is definitely a good thing. So, I mean, part of what you're doing is, uh, educating people. I'm saying you've definitely kind of, uh, taken the Human Error spirit-

Human Error: [00:14:52]: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Garrett O'Hara: [00:14:52] ... the thing that's existed out there in the universe-

Human Error: [00:14:54]: Correct.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:14:55] ... and I've seen you funnel it into some amazing, amazing recommendations for- for people.

Human Error: [00:15:01]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:15:01] And I've seen videos out on the streets, and, uh, I know, today, you kinda gave a couple of talks on, like, your top tips.

Human Error: [00:15:06]: Sure, yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:15:07] And, so... Like, not as Drew, but, like, channeling that Human Error.

Human Error: [00:15:10]: Oh, yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:15:10] And, like, what are- what are some of those? Like, [inaudible 00:15:13] and, like, passwords.

Human Error: [00:15:13]: Look-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:15:14] Can you [inaudible 00:15:17]?

Human Error: [00:15:15]: Look, it's really easy, okay? Take the path of least resistance.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:15:21] Mmm.

Human Error: [00:15:21]: Uh, first of all, all links are safe, right? I- I try to tell people, "Open everything, click anything."

Garrett O'Hara: [00:15:29] Mmm.

Human Error: [00:15:29]: I do these hand motions. You can't see this, 'cause it's audio, but... "Open everything." My hands open up. "Click anything." Right? Uh-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:15:38] I feel like I'm being hypnotized here, by the way, just for the- the people who are listening. That's-

Human Error: [00:15:41]: Open everything.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:15:42] Yeah.

Human Error: [00:15:42]: Click anything.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:15:44] Ahh.

Human Error: [00:15:44]: All links are safe. All... Say it with me.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:15:49] All links are safe. All links are safe.

Human Error: [00:15:53]: All links are safe. All links are safe.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:15:55] And that's how you do it, you know?

 Okay, wow.

Human Error: [00:15:56]: A little repetition. Um...

Garrett O'Hara: [00:15:58] I feel kinda weird now.

Human Error: [00:15:59]: Yeah?

Garrett O'Hara: [00:16:00] Okay, yeah.

Human Error: [00:16:02]: Yeah. Good [laughs].

Garrett O'Hara: [00:16:03] [laughs], job done.

Human Error: [00:16:03]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh... It's as easy as that.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:16:07] Mmm.

Human Error: [00:16:07]: So, you know, use one password. That's a big one.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:16:11] Yeah. It's a time-saver, if nothing else, right?

Human Error: [00:16:13]: Exactly, and, you know, people don't have the greatest memories. Uh, or memory, so to speak.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:16:20] Mmm.

Human Error: [00:16:20]: So, you start complicating things, you start using a bunch of different passwords, you're not gonna remember which one's for what, right?

Garrett O'Hara: [00:16:29] Mmm.

Human Error: [00:16:29]: If you use one password, and you make it something simple... Uh, pet's name, birthday, zip code, stuff like that. Something personal to your life.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:16:39] 'password123' is apparently a really good one.

Human Error: [00:16:40]: 'password123' is great.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:16:41] Yeah.

Human Error: [00:16:41]: 'password,' I believe, last I checked, is still the most popular password.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:16:45] Makes sense.

Human Error: [00:16:46]: Which is- which is awesome.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:16:48] I mean, really does make sense.

Human Error: [00:16:49]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:16:49] Yep.

Human Error: [00:16:49]: Um, yeah. No n- no need to be living in fear, you know?

Garrett O'Hara: [00:16:54] Mmm.

Human Error: [00:16:55]: Just, uh, just keep it easy; keep it simple.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:16:58] Keep it zen.

Human Error: [00:16:59]: Keep it simple, yes.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:17:00] Happy days. Um, what else? What else has, uh, been going on? You're- you're heading to, uh, Christchurch tomorrow, right? So, gonna have some time off, yourself and- and John?

Human Error: [00:17:11]: Yeah. Gonna take a, uh-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:17:11] A.k.a. Big Mac.

Human Error: [00:17:12]: ... gonna take a little holiday, as you say. And, uh, yeah, just, uh, see what's going on at McDonald's down in Queenstown. See what they got. See if there's anything new on the menu I can check out, you know? Um, and, yeah, I'll probably... Maybe don the robe, uh, for something fun.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:17:33] Mmm.

Human Error: [00:17:33]: Maybe another video. Some- something a little pro bono.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:17:35] Happy days.

Human Error: [00:17:36]: Uh, we'll see, yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:17:37] Speaking of which. So, wh- what's in the future for, uh, Human Error? I mean, you guys go back to the US, I believe, on Sunday.

Human Error: [00:17:44]: We're going... Yep.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:17:45] And constantly recording new content and, uh, new stuff. Anything, without kind of giving too much away, but, um-

Human Error: [00:17:50]: Sure.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:17:51] ... shooting some- some new... We'll call them series.

Human Error: [00:17:54]: Uh, we're working on a little, uh, a creative take on, uh, CCPA, which is, uh...

Garrett O'Hara: [00:18:01] Cool. A Californian privacy, uh, legislation.

Human Error: [00:18:03]: You got it.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:18:04] Yep.

Human Error: [00:18:04]: You know what I'm talkin' about.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:18:05] I do.

Human Error: [00:18:07]: Uh, so, you know, we made that video for GEPR. Uh, a little music video, which was super fun. A, you know, fun, digestible way to learn some of the ins and outs of that policy.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:18:20] Mmm.

Human Error: [00:18:20]: Now we're going to do something similar, I think, for CCPA. So, we're gonna be filming that in the middle of March, and then, uh, Mimecast kickoff. Uh, we're gonna be back in, uh, Boston and London and, you know, continuing the, uh, Human Error's terror across the, uh, across the globe, so to speak.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:18:39] So, like, in my mind, you have a... You've got a private plane, a little bit like Elton John back in, probably, the mid-'70s.

Human Error: [00:18:46]: I actually teleport.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:18:46] Is that fair?

Human Error: [00:18:47]: I actually teleport.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:18:47] Do you?

Human Error: [00:18:48]: Yep.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:18:50] Very nice.

Human Error: [00:18:50]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:18:50] That's a way better way to do it.

Human Error: [00:18:51]: Yeah. I can materialize anywhere, any time. I have a lot of fun with it.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:18:55] Well, that's how I've seen you... You know, you work in cybersecurity, so I- I- I absolutely believe, not that, just, you can teleport, but, actually, you're everywhere at the same time.

Human Error: [00:19:03]: Mm-hmm [affirmative], yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:19:04] Yeah.

Human Error: [00:19:04]: Yeah. Also, I have a- a jet ski. Kinda like something Batman would have. So, wh- you know, when I have time-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:19:12] Yep.

Human Error: [00:19:12]: ... to take my time, to travel, I'll just take that, the standup Human Error superhero jet ski [laughs].

Garrett O'Hara: [00:19:19] Sounds amazing.

Human Error: [00:19:19]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:19:20] Amazing. What a way to travel.

Human Error: [00:19:21]: Yeah. You know, keep it fun. That's what Human Error's all about.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:19:25] Yep.

Human Error: [00:19:25]: Human Error's about fun.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:19:26] Yep.

Human Error: [00:19:26]: Right? What's the fun choice? Not what's the safe choice, not what's the secure choice. What's the fun choice?

Garrett O'Hara: [00:19:35] Every time.

Human Error: [00:19:36]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:19:36] Any time.

Human Error: [00:19:36]: Scratch that itch. You know? You're... For example, I hear a lot of these security guys, you know, like... Thumb drives. You find a thumb drive on the street, on your way to work.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:19:48] Yep.

Human Error: [00:19:48]: Uh, you're not supposed to pick it up. Are you kidding me? You have to pick it up. It's- it's-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:19:56] Who knows what's on there?

Human Error: [00:19:57]: No... That's the thing; no one knows what's on there.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:19:59] Could be amazing.

Human Error: [00:20:00]: But you're not gonna... See, what, it could be funny pictures you're not supposed to see.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:20:04] Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Human Error: [00:20:05]: And you're gonna wanna see those. The fun choice.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:20:08] Are you speaking from personal experience? 'Cause this sounds a little bit like... You know those stories that people tell where it's like, "Yeah, a friend of mine," but, actually, it's- it's the person.

Human Error: [00:20:15]: In all honesty [crosstalk 00:20:17], I take a lot of personal experience and put it into [laughs] this character. Uh- uh, to be, uh, completely truthful. I mean, before I was Human Error, I was picking up thumb drives. That's, like, literally a real thing that I did, many times. In New York City-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:20:39] Yep.

Human Error: [00:20:39]: ... there's lost thumb drives everywhere. And some of the stuff- some of the stuff I saw on those thumb drives? Totally worth it.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:20:46] Yep.

Human Error: [00:20:47]: Uh, I probably wouldn't do it now. I'm breaking character a little bit right here, I'm just gonna let you know-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:20:52] Okay.

Human Error: [00:20:52]: ... that this gig has really led to me being way more secure. Something about the repetition of saying these lines and playing Human Error has led me to completely-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:21:07] No. This feels like Dylan gone electric or something. I- I- you know, like, I don't want you to be-

Human Error: [00:21:12]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:21:14] ... secure [laughs]. Stay [crosstalk 00:21:16].

Human Error: [00:21:14]: I got a- I got a privacy thing on my phone now.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:21:18] What?

Human Error: [00:21:18]: Yeah. Isn't that- isn't that nuts? Do you want me to go... I should- should I just stay Human Error [laughs]?

Garrett O'Hara: [00:21:25] Nah. I think it's- I think it's good- good to see behind the curtain.

Human Error: [00:21:29]: Yeah, yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:21:30] For sure. Uh, awesome. Thank you. Thank you so much for, uh, for hanging out.

Human Error: [00:21:36]: Yeah. Thanks for letting me into your-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:21:38] And it's- it's an interesting thing to be in a hotel room in Auckland, and-

Human Error: [00:21:40]: Yeah. You got a nice room here, man.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:21:41] Yeah.

Human Error: [00:21:42]: Pretty cool.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:21:43] It's pretty nice, yeah. Well, it's a great city-

Human Error: [00:21:46]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:21:46] ... and, yeah, it's been a good time. Really awesome to meet you.

Human Error: [00:21:48]: It's been so awesome, being down here. I've never been to the bottom half of the earth before, uh, and it's been really cool. Uh, the people are great, the food is amazing. I know I talk a lot about McDonald's, but, uh, I've eaten other- at other restaurants as well. Or [laughs] local establishments, and I was really surprised, because I just thought America had the best food, and I was-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:22:16] Best might be-

Human Error: [00:22:16]: ... I might be wrong.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:22:18] Yeah. Uh, yeah. I think that's a fair statement, but, uh...

Human Error: [00:22:20]: Every bit of food I've had here has been absolutely delicious.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:22:22] Yeah, they do that well. Ah, definitely a very, uh, welcoming country, New Zealand, and, uh, hopefully Australia was- was the same for you guys.

Human Error: [00:22:29]: Yeah. Yep.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:22:29] But, um... Yeah, man. Very lovely to meet you in person. I've obviously seen a lot of your work-

Human Error: [00:22:34]: Yes.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:22:35] ... and, uh, experienced a lot of your influence, uh, out there.

Human Error: [00:22:37]: Yeah, what's the biggest security mistake you ever made?

Garrett O'Hara: [00:22:40] Uh, and they are so many.

Human Error: [00:22:42]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:22:43] They are, literally, so many. Um, I think the- the link stuff that you talk about is probably the big one.

Human Error: [00:22:49]: Yeah, yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:22:49] And people just blindly clicking on links.

Human Error: [00:22:51]: Oh, yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:22:51] We talk about it all the time. You know, the- the person, uh, gets a- a delivery notification-

Human Error: [00:22:56]: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Garrett O'Hara: [00:22:57] ... haven't ordered anything, and there's nothing actually arriving.

Human Error: [00:22:59]: Right.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:23:00] But they'll still click, uh, click on the link. Or, um, in Australia, the Australian Federal Police?

Human Error: [00:23:04]: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

Garrett O'Hara: [00:23:05] You get these emails where, uh, you've got a, air quotes, "fine."

Human Error: [00:23:08]: Oh, no.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:23:09] And, uh, you know, it's...

Human Error: [00:23:10]: You better click on that.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:23:13] If you're fined from Canberra, and, uh, it's for somebody who- who's never been in Canberra.

Human Error: [00:23:16]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:23:17] And I don't believe the AFP even issues speeding tickets; they're a completely different set of departments. It's that stuff, you know.

Human Error: [00:23:22]: Yeah, but you're scared.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:23:23] Course. Yeah.

Human Error: [00:23:24]: "Oh, no, I have a fine."

Garrett O'Hara: [00:23:25] It's a fine.

Human Error: [00:23:25]: "If I don't pay this-"

Garrett O'Hara: [00:23:27] Yeah.

Human Error: [00:23:27]: "... this could come back to haunt me. Better click. Right away."

Garrett O'Hara: [00:23:31] Yep.

Human Error: [00:23:31]: And, better safe than sorry, click it.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:23:36] That's it.

Human Error: [00:23:36]: Yeah.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:23:36] Got to find out, right? What's on the USB drive? What's in the link?

Human Error: [00:23:39]: There's only one way... I'll leave you with this [laughs]. There's only one way to know if a link is safe, and that's to click it.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:23:46] True that.

Human Error: [00:23:48]: And, if it's not, you pay the price. Big whoop. Move on. Move on to the next one.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:23:52] And then it's- it's a learning experience if nothing else, right? I mean...

Human Error: [00:23:54]: Yes, exactly. Exactly.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:23:56] Awesome. Human Error, a.k.a. Drew.

Human Error: [00:23:58]: Yes.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:24:00] Awesome to have you here. Thank you so much.

Human Error: [00:24:02]: Yes.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:24:02] And, um, yeah, we look forward to your next visit. I won't ask you now when that is, but I do hope you'll, uh, you'll make it back down this, uh, to this bottom half of the earth.

Human Error: [00:24:10]: I guarantee it.

Garrett O'Hara: [00:24:11] Awesome.

Human Error: [00:24:11]: I guarantee it. And, in a way, I'll never really leave. I'll always be-

Garrett O'Hara: [00:24:15] You will always be here.

Human Error: [00:24:16]: ... I'll always be with you. Human Error will. Yes, that's true. All right, cool. Thanks for having me. What do you got in your... Uh, you got anything in your mini fridge?

Garrett O'Hara: [00:24:24] And there you go. Some deep insights from our friend, Human Error, a.k.a. Drew Freed. Or maybe that should be the other way around. Hopefully, we don't need to include a disclaimer that you should basically do the opposite of Human Error's advice. He was using humor to make a point. Maybe next time we'll have [inaudible 00:24:43] judgment involved, just for balance.

So, we hope you enjoyed the conversation, and, as always, thanks for listening.

Chief Field Technologist APAC, Mimecast

Garrett O’Hara is the Chief Field Technologist, APAC at Mimecast having joined in 2015 with the opening of the Sydney office, leading the growth and development of the local team. With over 20 years of experience across development, UI/UX, technology communication, training development and mentoring, Garrett now works to help organisations understand and manage their cyber resilience strategies and is a regular industry commentator on the cyber security landscape, data assurance approaches and business continuity.

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